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137

Shellard Case
morning of the 4th. November when I came to the Prisoners house - I
saw him in conversation with some other persons, I heard the
conversation was on the Chartist question - I accosted the Prisoner
in the usual way and then remarked that things were brought to a
pretty pass - Prisoner said it is no more than might be expected
I remarked that if nothing could be obtained by peaceable means
nothing could be done by confusion and destruction of Property and
Life - Mr. Shellard said that they had no intention of the destruction of
either, he remarked that they had tried to obtain redress of grievances
by great means and now they would resolve to force, I remarked,
addressing myself to Mr. Shellard, you cannot bring a Congregation
of Men together without destruction of Property and Life - Sometime
ago I met the Prisoner at the White Hart - I heard him state
whilst I was in the room - that a Man ought to be damned and
have a chain round his neck that was not a Chartist or would
not be, I can't say which, this was in about May last - From
the general term I inferred that there was a sort of exhultation
with the Prisoner about the report which was first then brought to
Town, that the Soldiers were disarmed and Newport in possession
of the Chartist's - I should infer that the Prisoner had been
drinking in May when he made the remark that a Man ought
to be damned and have a chain round his neck that is not
a Chartist, there was not verbal expression of gladness but
he appeared to exhult by his manner and conduct on the 4th.
November.
Joseph Kerby

Stephen Fletcher - I am a General Shopkeeper residing in Pontypool
The Prisoner came to my house on the 4th. November between 9
and 10 o'clock in the morning - I took him into an Inner room
I said Shellard tell me what this row is about now - I said
I know you are in the secret and let me know, he said I
suppose we are determined to have it now, we have tried
long enough to have it by peaceable means, I said what is your
ostensible object, what is it you want, he said why I'll tell you
We intend to take the Great Men of the County first

135 [encircled]

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